Hello,

I was a little involved in the work of J. D. Rentsch and J. Leebens-Mack, as I occasionally correspond with J. D. Rentsch and I have been supplying him with photos, articles etc. And as most do I support the origin of Yucca gloriosa to be a hybrid involving 3-4 other species, so I were gladly supporting Mr. Rentsch with anything help full :-) No that's not the reason as many of you I am also qurious of nature and find such investigations very interesing, no matter what the result might become.

OK, back to Yucca gloriosa.

In an article by Trelease, published in Miss. Bot. Gard. Ann. Rpt. 3. 1892, there are two plates with Yucca gloriosa:




And a plate with Yucca aloifolia and another Yucca gloriosa:



On the following two images you will find the original desription for the plates:




As you can see on plate 6 is a specimen which is what I would call the "real gloriosa". But unfortunately is this photo from cultivation in France, so it's not as hard evidence as one could wish for.

On Plate 7, I see a Yucca very much like the plants cultivate here in Europe as Yucca gloriosa, nobilis, robusta etc. This specimen seems to be a cultivated specimen too but in the USA.

Since the two photos of two quite big specimens were taken already in 1876 and 1872, I do not believe them to be any of the Early Sprenger hybrids (his hybrids were all named in the period of 1897 to 1907).

In my notes about Yucca gloriosa, I have written "Yucca gloriosa was introduced into cultivation in England around 1550." maybe we need to start collecting material from the UK, so we can see how the plants cultivated there look like.

Well No matter what we call the plants we grow as Yucca gloriosa, they are all very well word cultivating.

Here is a photo of my "real" Yucca gloriosa:



It was bought in a supermarket the same day as I bought the variegated form, so they were likely from the same nursery, and the green form could very well be an green sport of the variegated plant. I do not have any left of the variegated form to show you, but I can show you a photo of a plant I got from Alexander Heim some years ago:



It has a pale green variegation and a very nice growth-form with very wide leaves (wider than the green above).

I believe that the original hybrid of the wide leafed form of Yucca gloriosa, might very well have been a cross of Yucca aloifolia x concava. I have had so many hybrids in my hand, that this is what I would expect a hybrid of those two to be looking.

But since all this

Well I have written much more that I had expected.

Best wishes

Benny

P.S. Oh I almost forgot,

Sascha,

I think that here is not any sterile Yucca, there are just some specimens, which has a much stronger apical dominants in the inflorescence, so only the outer most flowers will get a proper nutrient supply to grow a seedpod/fruit. So these possible sterile specimens could probably be setting fruits/pods if only a few of the upper and outer most flowers were pollinated. I have been testing this on specimens which I thought as being sterile, and I have had seedpods on all four specimens, and only at the upper outer most flowers. a few years ago I did ask Pellmyhr about this phenomenon, but he had no other explanation than apical dominants, and neither he or any of his student's has been studying this phenomenon in habitat.

Hi Benny,
The Yucca gloriosa pictured on plate 6 , is, into my opinion, Yucca gloriosa f. plicata . There is an another picture about this specimen (see my 'bildergalerie') but at an older stage.
This plant is still in cultivation in this botanical garden, and is now very old an large. This is the only Yucca gloriosa in cultivation at the 'villa Thuret', so I think no confusing is possible.
There is a lots of Yuccas growing there , and certainly some of the Sprenger's hybrids. I'd taken small cutting of them, and for sure they looks very unusual.

Hello Fred,

Great photos of a great plant. When your specimen is big enough, I would very much like to trade or buy a cutting of this one :-)

Thanks for showing me this.

Best wishes

Benny

Hello Thomas,

You have my support in that opinion :-) Of course are Yucca recurvifolia a hybrid of almost the same gene-pole. A possibility is a hybrid of Yucca xgloriosa x flaccida or another scenario very much alike Yucca xgloriosa.

Benny

Hi Benny ,
Yes, I me can make a deal with Yucca gloriosa f. plicata . I'm trying to get more cutting from this particular gloriosa, Just wait for spring 2014
Did the of your hybrids using the pollen from Yucca elephantipes germinated ?

Hello Fred,

Great, it would be really nice to have a plants which is identical with the specimen in Trelease and Molon's books. I will look forward to spring already :-)

In 2012 all seedpods were ruined, not a single seed made it, every pod were rotten, and seeds empty. The growing/flowering season were very cold with only 5 days above 25C and 21 days (I think) above 20 C (including the days with 25C) - most days were in the 15 to 18C range. Didn't, You receive an email sometime last winter about this ?

Best wishes

Benny

Hi Benny,
Tomorow I will post somes pictures from Yucca gloriosa 'looking' like plants, from cuttings taken last year at the Villa Thuret Botanical Garden.
The Yucca gloriosa f. plicata is a very nice plant, I have seen some beautiful specimens during my hollydays on the French Atlantic coast, but the car was full of bagages and there was no places for big yuccas cuttings ...
No Benny, you didn't inform me about the final results with yucca elephantipes hybrids.. This is a sad new..but the weather last year was not favorable for the seed pods maturation even in the northern parts of France...

Hallo zusammen,

I indeed agree with Horst, Benny and others that this "real" gloriosa could be indeed a hybrid between Y. aloifolia x filamentosa concava. Yucca gloriosa forma plicata could be as suggested in the past, a hybrid between Y. gloriosa (=Y. aloifola x filamentosa concava?) x filamentosa concava?

I'm a bit in favour of the old classification, and in my opinion there are subforms of gloriosa, such as superba, plicata, nobilis and so on, still existing, whatever you call them. Some are well documented, for example the Villa Thuret plicata form. (BTW Fred Julien, if you have some cuttings of this particular Yucca, I also would really like to buy one from you).
There are different forms of gloriosa which have these pleated leaves.

Having seen some of these forms in the flesh, I tend to believe that the gloriosa with the wide leaves resembles the one which is described in the old literature.

I have received in the past a seedling of this wide leaved gloriosa (from Yuccaland in France), and it had the same caracteristics of the motherplant. Unfortunately it died. The fruit looked like the one of the photos from Trelease.

I will try if I can find some pictures of the seedling (if I made any) and other pictures.

Greetings,
Mark

Hallo,

wenn diese Form der Y. gloriosa mit den schwertähnlichen, breiten Blättern als die 'echte' Y. gloriosa definiert sein soll, so habe ich damit überhaupt keine Probleme. Im Gegenteil, das was schon immer meine Vorstellung.
Problematisch finde ich einige Formen, die nicht diesem Typ entsprechen. Ich denke da bpsw. an Y. gloriosa 'Nobilis' oder 'Robusta'. Die Pflanzen mit diesen Bezeichnungen die ich bis jetzt gesehen haben entsprechen meiner
Meinung nach nicht der klassischen Y. gloriosa.
Hier mal eine Beispiel für eine generativ entstandene Form. Es ist eine Y. gloriosa 'Nobilis' x 'xfloribunda', entstanden bei Mark. Es ist noch eine Jungpflanze, aber man kann schon sehr gut erkennen, dass die sich in Richtung
Y. recurvifolia und nicht in Richtung gloriosa entwickelt.


wenn die mal blühen sollte werde ich sie wieder mit Pollen von Y. recurvifolia bestäuben.


jetzt mal eine interessante Yucca, die Alex in Griechenland entdeckt und vermehrt hat. Er hat sie als Y. 'Vittorio Emanuelle II' bezeichnet. Jedenfalls ist sie herbstblühend und hat auch schwertartige Blätter mit
deutlichem Einfluß von Y. aloifolia. Die klassische Y. gloriosa hat bei mir regelmäßig versagt, auch die grüne Form. Sie ist nach meiner Beobachtung weniger winterhart wie Y. recurvifolia.
Die hier abgebildete Yucca ist gut winterhart und hat erstaunlich wenig Pilzflecken. Außerdem wächst sie wie der Deibel. Es ist meine massivste Pflanze aus diesem Komplex.

Hallo Mark,
The Yucca gloriosa f. plicata cuttings are 'gratis' or we can exchange some Yuccas cuttings if you want ...
I've also a Yucca gloriosa that is looking like a short leafed Yucca aloifolia 'variegata', but in fact it might be named Yucca gloriosa f.plicata 'variegata' , because the leafs margins don't have teeth ! and the both side of the leafs are rought, like Yucca gloriosa f.plicata . The flower stalk is different from the Yucca aloifolia, and more typical from the gloriosa.
I'd found this Yucca in a Nursery in Italia, and the plant was sold Under the name Yucca aloifolia variegata...but I'm now thinking that this nursery is not trading with the right name...

Horst,

This is one very impressive Yucca you show us in the last photo. And it's indeed very much like what I would say is a Yucca Vittorio Emanuele II. It is however not completely alike what I have as this hybrid, but growing conditions can change the look of a yucca very much.

In Molon's book from 1914 he writes the following about Yucca Vittorio Emanuele II: (translated from Italian by google translate)

V. X Vittorio Emanuele II, Sprenger, in Cat, 1902 and 1903 2 list and 1904 list 2.; Bull. B. Tose Soc. d'Ort., , 1906, p. 227. In the catalog of the Sprenger (1907, 5 list.) And Willy Muller (1908, 5 list.) Is noted by mistake Y. X
Vittorio Emanuele III.
It is a hybrid (Table VIII) of Sprenger, published in 1902 as Y. aloifolia purpurea X glorious glauca penduta and later as Y. aloifolia Xpéndulifolia [recurvifolia] and he thus described: "Trunk high, branched. Leaves numerous, long, glaucous, erect, somewhat inclined, beautiful. the infloresceuza is huge, about 2 m. height, purpurescente, with buttons carmine and white flowers in the 'internal large, bell-shaped and beautiful. "The author believes one of the most beautiful and gigantic among its yuccas, with repeated flowering, white flowers and red.

Here is the plate from Molon:


The specimen I grow as Yucca Vittorio Emanuele II has quite shiny green leaves, and are not glaucous. When it's daylight I will look at my potted plant in the greenhouse to see it it has shiny or glaucous.

And Yes, us gardeners need to name all the different forms, as we want to grow them all ;-) I will really look forward to a small piece of Yucca gloriosa forma plicata 'Villa Thuret' :-)

Have a nice day

Benny